Tuesday, December 13, 2005

 

Finnish-Tamil Connection

While I was browsing the yuvan shankar raja page from itwofs, I came to know about the Swedish/Finnish band Hednigarna. Later on, I was looking for more finnish folk music, when I came across Varttina. (yes the same varttina, that is colloborating with rahman in LOTR).

I would encourage people to hear the music from these bands. They have sample mp3 files in their respective web pages. Also amazon has 4 free varttina tracks for free download.

Tune/Melody:
Most of the tunes seemed like Kharaharapriya. Some of the tunes were similar to vedic chanting.
For example: Tielle.mp3 (or) go here and click track 2 Lepiainnen.mp3 (or) go here and click track 8.
Here I want to point out that in sama veda the three major swaras are s,r2,g2 - as in kharaharapriya.

(Just a little digression here, I would view the swaras of yajur veda as n2,s,r1. One could have easily (using shruthi transpose) viewed this as s,r2,g2 but I (we) dont do this. Why? The answer has to do with the way we identify the 's' note. More on this topic, shruthi bedham and vivadhi swaras on a later post)


And, these two tunes seem very similar to some film songs. I cant think of the particular songs. If it strikes for somebody please tell me. Kylan.mp3 and Ottajat.mp3

Rythm:
I was abosultely astounded by the rythms because of the use of unconventional time period. For example the following song is a 51 beat /cycle song!!(13x3+12) - ikki.mp3. (or) go here and click track 4.
This, when the world is filled with 8 beat montony! Ofcourse, Carnatic exploits these curious rythm patterns in Pallavi singing.

The sounds of finnish language , especially the names, (to me) sound a lot like tamil. Consider the following names : Illmarinen, Hakkinen, Raikkonen, Makkinen and how does {Kannan, Hariharan, Subramanian} go with the group? The first name ,Illmarinen, is a an important character in 'Kalevala',
the national epic of finland, which was recently translated to tamil.

Here I will adangufy a little before hypothesizing a finn-tamil historical connection, because there is a finn Asko Parpola who has extensively researched sanskrit and tamil. Infact, he has come the closest ,deciphering the harappan script. If there was a historical connection between the languages, he would have found it definitely!

( I remember encountering a paper describing the possible relation between tamil and an european language (forgot the language) an year ago. The argument was based on a large overlap of root-words. For some reason, I cannot find it now. If somebody finds it, can you please send me the links)


Last but not least, Nokia is comming to chennai.

P.S: If you have problems listening to the mp3 links, (if you get some server error), then go the immediate parent webpage and click (or download) on the mp3 track in that page.

Comments:
Hi Vijayanand,
On the music and vedic recitation, there is a set of very interesting posts by Srini Pichumani.

He also says there are a lot of variations among different vedic schools of India.

In Yajurveda, I think one can say (in addition to N2 S R1) there is also an element of G1 in the svarita syllables.
 
I haven't learnt or listened to much Samaveda, but I have heard Dr S. Ramanathan 'singing' a little bit, where the svaras range from the mandra N2 to the tara N2 of Kharaharapriya scale. As you know, this is nothing but the Chittaranjani raga, in which Tyagaraja aptly composed Nadatanumanisham ("samaveda-saram").

Akin to the Finnish-Tamil resemblance you mention, let me show you the Italian-Telugu one:

Stradivari -- Srivari
Amati -- Ambati

In addition, Telugu is also called "the Italian of the East"!
 
Srikanth,

Thanks for your links. Especially the first link was very informative.

In Yajurveda, I think one can say (in addition to N2 S R1) there is also an element of G1 in the svarita syllables.

I have heard Dr S. Ramanathan 'singing' a little bit, where the svaras range from the mandra N2 to the tara N2 of Kharaharapriya scale.

Yes I agree. But I find (from what I have heard) that the other notes dont occur nearly as frequently as N2,S,R1 is yajur and S,R2,G2 is sama.

As you know, this is nothing but the Chittaranjani raga, in which Tyagaraja aptly composed Nadatanumanisham ("samaveda-saram").

Thanks for the info!

Akin to the Finnish-Tamil resemblance you mention, let me show you the Italian-Telugu one

Yes, I have also heard that both of these languages' words end in vowels.
 
There is an ancient link proposed by several theories that show a migration far older than the indo-european movement, which influenced all of europe, parts of the middle east and northern india. This ancient migration some 10,000 years old somehow strongly influenced both the Tamil and Finnish Languages. I stumbled on this site when I was trying to find out the similarities myself. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/4737/dravid1.html
 
Anonymous,

Thank you for the link. The information in the link is very interesting. But I dont have much knowledge to comment on the veracity of the statements in the link.

(Going by the current trend of theories and counter theories in acedemia on this subject --Dravidian languages--- I am not sure if indeed anybody can)

But intuitively I feel there should be a connection! Thanks again.
 
Hello Vijayanand!

I went through this particular posting of yours. It is awesome. Keep it up. Such things really make me to feel proud of being a Tamilian. Hoping to see postings of such a kind from you. I have been trying for quite a long time to go through the Finnish epic "Kalavela" in Tamil, but till this very moment, I was not successful in doing so. Could you please help me out in it? I shall be very grateful to you for the same.

While going through your article, I thought of bringing to your notice the web page in geocities but that has already been brought to your notice by some body else.

Also, for your kind information, apart from Finnish, Hungarian language also possesses some similarities with Tamil. I kindly request you to visit my blogspot, which is,

http://annamalayan.blogspot.com/

Many thanks for such a nice posting and hats off to you.
 
Hello annamalayar,

I also cannot deny the pride I feel, when I come to know about facts concerning the tamil language. Btw, these are just the facts I found from reading on the internet and not through my original research!

Yes, You are right Hungarian may also contain similarities with Tamil. This may be because finnish and hungarian are quite similar. In fact, Finnish Hungarian (and Estonian) form a group of languages called the Uralic languages. (Just like how telugu, tamil, malayalam and kannada form the 'dravidian' languages group).

Regarding Kalevala's tamil translation -- try here:

http://www.tamil.net/projectmadurai/pmfinish.html#dt0143

You may need to install some tamil fonts to make it display properly.
 
Great blog you got here. I'd like to read something more concerning this topic. The only thing it would also be great to see on this blog is some pics of some devices.
Alex Trider
Phone jammer
 
According to Wikipedia, Tamil is a Dravidian language and Finnish is a Uralic language. Dravidian languages have ties with Uralic languages, although the link goes as far back as 5000 BC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dravidian_languages
 
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